Does the World Know Jesus Better Than The Church Does?

I was sitting in a hotel room late the other day, flipping channels as I haplessly attempted sleep. I ran across the repeat of Bill Maher's show with Kurt Vonnegut which originally aired last week. I found myself both agreeing and disagreeing with much of what was said that night. Maher and Vonnegut were talking about New Orleans, America, and politics, but then they shifted to a very surprising discussion about Jesus. Here is the extent of their conversation:

Bill Maher (to Kurt Vonnegut Jr.):
In your new book you make a very interesting point about how the Republican right is always wanting to post the Ten Commandments in public places, which of course is from the Old Testament, but they never, ever seem to want to post the sayings of Jesus, like the Beautitudes: Blessed are the meek, Blessed are the merciful, Blessed are the peacemakers. They’re such Christians but they never want to put up what Jesus said.

Kurt Vonnegut (in response to Bill Maher):
Well I don’t think they’ve ever paid any attention to him, and if he were to show up now with that kind of talk I think he would probably be given lethal injection rather than crucifixion.
No, I don’t think they know anything about Jesus…
 
They then went on to address other political issues in Vonnegut's work. Regardless of one's opinion of their stated politics, I found their discussion of Jesus quite revealing. They each knew the Beautitudes, most specifically they knew about Jesus' humility, his mercy, and his commitment to peacemaking. Somehow, they also knew that Jesus' life was somehow instructive, that it ought to be emulated somehow. They equated knowing Jesus with living like Jesus.

I've interviewed Emerging Church leaders who have told me the same thing. They tell me that their non-Christian neighbors know who Jesus is -- the problem is that the church doesn't. These leaders tell me their simple (but not easy) task is to emulate Jesus as a community, to resemble the way he lived, in very public ways. They do not need to introduce those in the world to Jesus -- these 'neighbors' already have a pretty good idea of what he is about. Their fundamental task is to introduce these neighbors to a Christ-following church, i.e. to a people that resembles this humble, merciful and peace-making Jesus.

Not a few times does the church find that the prophetic critique of its life comes not from those inside the community but from those labeled 'world'. Rather than defend ourselves, we need to listen  and see what the Holy Spirit is saying to us...

Technorati Tags: Jesus, politics, America

Comments

[Wes Roberts]

...excellent post! May I use your words in a future time of sharing with pastors? Keep your potent insight coming...this olde man needs them.

[si]

thanks for these thoughts Ryan.

[Andrew]

Ryan,

I find this post a silly post. It is so generalised that it becomes meaningless. There are certainly people outside of the church who probably live more Christlike lives then some inside the church. But the reverse is probably also the case. Same can be said of those in either the institutional forms of the church and those in the emergent church. I find genalisations like these are not helpful. If we talk of the self-named emerging church as the alternative andf the way forward (as opposed to one way forward) then we have learned nothing from previous attempts to reform our forms of church. The sooner the name 'emerging' is dropped and the sooner we stop generalising about it (either positively or negatively) the better I say.

Andrew

[Wess Daniels]

I don't really see where there are generalizations in this post, I guess the main issue i would point out to Andrew is that he missed the important point of what you had to say.

First it seems that the "world" or in this case liberal politicians expect more out of Jesus and his so-called followers, than his followers actually do. People outside the church are not stupid, they know what Jesus stood for, and they know what he wanted to accomplish. Most of them look at the world and questioned whether he did anything good for it at all, and the church is to be blamed for this (in my opinion). If we, the so-called followers of Christ, are to outdo, or undercut/subvert the expectations of the world, he have to raise our expectations of ourself and be aware that what Jesus said we are actually to do...the US Christians could begin by "loving your enemies."

Second, I don't hear you saying that the emerging church is the only group that has everything right, in fact I know you would critique parts of it - its a human institution that hopes to be like Christ not be Christ (perfect). Rather, the emerging church has been more willing to give the world, the time of day. A majority of the church has been so afraid of anything outside conservative fundamentalism and right wing politics that it refuses to actually listen to the world. And thats it, we need to just listen and understand that all people being created in God's image are valuable to be heard. This is where hospitality comes in (something the emerging church has taken as a very important practice) and learning the art of giving space to others. The Spirit of Christ speaks through the world, and all people - not all the time, not infallibly - but as George Fox said 400 years ago "there is a seed of God in everyone." We should take that notion more seriously today, especially when those who don't profess to know Christ appear to do better at understanding what he wanted from us.

[aaron peterson]

Hey Ryan. didn't Dr. Mouw write an article recently stating that he would like to see the Beattitudes posted in public places?

[Andrew]

Let me clarify something because I just reread the post and my comment and wish to change what I found silly! It is not the concept being expressed in the post (hardly, which I grant could have been what was Wess read into it) but the notion that any branch of the church (in this case the emergent church) is any more prophetic or faithful or motivated or whatever... by this then others. You just can't generalise like that. I know of plenty of emerging churches that serve as prophetic reminders of this and others that are little more then therapeutic excuses for a generation to exist away from the others in its' 'church style'. Same can be said for other forms of church life too.

[Ryan Bolger]

Andrew, I'm sorry you found the post silly. I don't believe I said that the Emerging Church had a corner on all things prophetic. I'm just saying that some of the Emerging Church leaders I have interviewed maintain an emphasis on the ethical life of Christ as exemplary (a la Dallas Willard and N.T. Wright). I think you will find that an emphasis on Jesus as example (such as in the Sermon on the Mount) has been more the exception than the rule in Western church life. I'm sorry that you find this as too general, I tried to be specific.

[Andrew]

Fair enough and thanks for the comments but I still don't think we can generalise about any branch of the church and I don't think that it can be fairly said that the emerging church has a greater commitment to an ethical approach to the faith. Even when when you say 'some leaders' I could also find 'some leaders' in established/ institutional areas of the church with the same commitments, perhaps even a greater demonstrated commitment over many years.

[Liz Ruiz]

I think Andrew should step away from the viewpoint of the Emergent being a branch of the church or a "denomination" of sorts. My understanding is that Emergent is an attitude of focus on Christ's exemplary lifestyle and valuing that example over some of those traditional church behaviors that have not stemmed from Jesus, but maybe have stemmed from outside influences over the history of the church's progression. I would say that no matter what denomination you are in (if any), you may still find many people with emergent hearts who are practitioners of this focus. It is basically a desire to get back to the roots Jesus set down for us. And I think what Ryan was referring to was that this conversation he watched was witness to the reality that many people in the world have more of an emergent view point than many churches would take. I feel this is perhaps the problem many non-Christians see in churches and a reason they choose not to come. This is why I feel Emergent churches have risen. Groups of people found the need to have a church that focused their vision primarily and most importantly on Christ's teachings and lifestyle, but I don't consider it a denomination as much as a sort of grass roots effort emerging from within the church.

And Ryan, I loved this post. Thank you for sharing it.

[Tim Jeffries]

I live in Melbourne Australia and am just about to plant a church here. I have to say that your post must just be a reflection on American culture. I have occassionally come across a not-yet-christian who knows Jesus well in Australia, but generally Aussie's have no clue about him. Often evangelism in this context is about starting at the very beginning with people over long periods of time so they are introduced to Jesus.

[Ryan Bolger]

Aaron, you are right -- I missed it, but Rich Mouw says it much better than I did -- here is the link at belief net...

http://www.beliefnet.com/story/161/story_16188_1.html

[graham]

Great post! I could not agree more. Honest. I could try, but it would just be a waste of time!

[Ryan Bolger]

Thanks Tim for noting the cultural differences...

[mismjy1]

I appreciate the comment, and I agree. I think our leaders ignore large parts of Jesus' teachings, and misinterpret others (e.g. parable of the talents). As Christians, we don't get to pick and choose, keeping "eye for an eye" and ignoring "turn the other cheek."

[Clint Walker]

I loved this post.

I am taking the conversation part and putting it on my blog.

[dan]

The issue is not that the world knows more about Jesus than the church does... the issue is that the church (today's church, in very general terms) is honestly terrified to follow Him as we are called to. Why? Because it will cost us - and not many of us are willing to pay the price. Fear is a huge factor in keeping churches from actually living Acts 2:42-47... we are afraid people will leave - and with them goes their wallet. I know how this sounds... but I also know that the God of the Bible will ALWAYS provide for those who TRULY follow Him - not just in word, but in action... may we all be a people who do just that - starting with myself, of course.. (dang, not I have to, huh?)