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March 14, 2006


Benjamin Sternke

I am in a church that has roots in the early Vineyard, and I know a "We all get to play", participatory ethos was an important emphasis. I know I've heard things like "God is the audience, we are the choir" and "Worship is not a spectator sport" more than once! I think it's an application of the priesthood of all believers, really, where there is no male or female, Jew or Greek, slave or free, but Christ is all, and is in all.


As a former "non denominational" Christian. (I remember when I actually believe that meant something to me and the others who pronounced it) I can honestly say that most of my judgements of more traditional churches were based mostly on ignorance and indifference.

Ignorance as to what they were doing, and indifference on their part to why I was there.

But after being tired a hearing good bands on Sundays and rick warren-ripoff preaching I was bored... extremely bored...

One Saturday night as I stood with eight other people around a table an Episcopal priest handed me a chalice and the "substance" that I had been searching for through "cool" and "innovative" worship found its way into my soul and I have never been the same.

God shows up when out\r hearts are open and hungry for God regardless of where we find ourselves.

nIce post.


ooos... I rambled for so long that I failed to mention that in this Episcopal church the community participated in the liturgy... he took volunteers from the congregation to act out the Gosple reading for the evening. It was my fisrt and only time there and I was Jesus. Heck, it my non-denominational church it would have taken years of christian maturity to be Jesus, that or good hair.



I like what you're saying here. I worked on staff at Lutheran church for half a year. Very interesting environment. I deffinately saw the need and desire (in some) to make our times of gathering created by the community, for the community.

To me, this more inclusive, less dichotomistic approach seems life breathing, to the "official leaders" as their roles seem less "official" and to the "lay members" as they get to do more than "lay" around.

And just curious...how long have you been teaching at Fuller? I have a friend starting there in the fall...heard good things.

Kieren Green

You've got to ask yourself, is God so vain that he requires our adolation?

Who wants to believe in a God that requires worship?


That is a great question... I like to start with the fact that we all inherently worship SOMETHING - our kids, girlfriend, car, stuff - take your pick. Whenever we put someone or something in God's place, we tend to hold on a little too tightly, and we can end up making idols of things we should love, not worship. My Son was born with a hole in his heart, and it was only because there was One I loved more than my Son that I was able to hold it together as I faced his uncertain future. Worshiping God helped me to have the right perspective so that my Son was a huge part of my life, but not my whole life... He's about to turn 2 and doing well by the way.
So worshiping God puts everything in its right place.
I worship God for this reason, and because I am really grateful for my life and want to live it with God. I also tend to be a better person to be around when I follow Jesus' agenda instead of my own. This is a little simple, but when I've asked the same question of myself, that's what I've come up with.



I'm a 'new' pastor in my late 30s in a traditional denom (PC(USA)). I'm personally starting to explore things emerging mostly because I get the sense it will help me better integrate or navigate the liberal/conservative split I feel in my own theological convictions.

My question related to this particular post however is this:

I currently serve a small congregation (less than 100) in a mid-size city in central iowa.

How does one begin the process of looking at what makes sense worship wise to create a place for people "offering themselves up to God, in ways that made sense in their worlds?"

I often get the sense that this emerging stuff is most relevant in large, urban multi-ethnic youth oriented contexts.

I personally would like to explore engaging in some emerging practices, but think my congregation would revolt (an Ash Wednesday service we did for the first time was said to be too catholic for some of my cong!)

Just some thoughts, maybe some direction in terms of resources to explore....I supsect when it comes down to it part of my problem is that I'm in a different place than my congregation.


I see having just read your emerging concerns course post that the issue I raise above (emerging within tradition) is on the radar screen, there is just not a lot of activity or successful models yet on this issue.


Great thoughts. I just had a conversation last week about this. Inclusiveness is really what's missing in so much of our current church environments; platform celebrity has a tendency to downplay the "everyone counts" message in the Body of Christ.

britta k

Thank you, Ryan!!! You have just succintly expressed precisely what we are trying to say in our little corner of MJewish life! We're actively working on starting that community I told you about a few months ago, and the meeting and planning is going very well for the early stages. But we've been trying to get at a few things when it came to "what needs to be present in worship," and you hit it. Some of us are also involved at a new monthly service that's sort of an area-wide thing, and these issues have already come up with a vengeance (and this Friday is only our second service!).

Would you (and Eddie, if he's bored with his non-retirement yet) ever be interested in having a workshop or something on the topic of "how to talk to people of liturgical difference without hostility"? I've been reading some Wink lately, and it's helping, but I'd love to get more nuts and bolts about it, if anybody else is interested in exploring the topic.


great conversations here --you'll find many resources at www.alternativeworship.com -- these communities have been engaging in highly participatory Eucharist services for a good 15 years...

Scott McLain

Hey Ryan

I can't find an email for you anywhere - could you please contact me? I am working on a docuemntary about the emrgent movement and I'd like to talk to you. Check this out for a lot of details:


Thanks! Your blog is awesome - I am a musician and ahve been shut out of a numebr of church bands over time because of egos and "who gets to play" and it never seems to fail -where the egos are, the thing seems to dry up...including peopel who attend in not only the actual performance of the worship music but inviting them to participate in what is happening is paramount to connection...


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That I be familiar with around it - it concerns statistics, is applied to the settlement of the nonlinear equations.
Absolutely much the exegesis to the problem purpose (as far as something till in this day anybody so plainly explain nothing a smog) interests:
There is a teleshow - the performer and the leader.
There are three doors. Behind rhyme of them the windfall, behind two others is not present.
The number one offers a creme de la creme to the gambler that explanation chooses any of 3 doors (their probabilities are correspond to).
After the choice is made, the principal who knows where lies a prize, opens whole of those doors that are not chosen by the trouper and shows that there the prize is not present. Also suggests the competitor to determine once again already between 2 doors.
Query - how to get ahead in the world to the player? (In a beginning it is specified that it is high-priority to restore a choice, the odds of a receipts behind a door on which was specified by the player who is doing not supervise = 66.7 %.
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  • Hi, welcome to my former blog! My name is Ryan Bolger, and this is where I posted my thoughts on Jesus, culture, new forms of community, among other things. Come visit me at my new blog: http://www.ryanbolger.com. I still teach at Fuller Seminary in Southern California where I'm doing some writing as well. Feel free to bounce around the new or old website -- I hope it might stir your imagination -- feel free to stir mine as well by leaving some comments, preferably at the new site... Peace...


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